I was at the Crit this morning and had a chat to Scott. To help people make the transition from the Novice Ride to the Main Group, he thought that an intermediate pace ride on a Tuesday morning would be a good idea. So, for everyone interested, there will be an “easy pace” ride on Tuesday morning. The time and place will be the same as the normal Tuesday morning ride – under the Narrows on the City side at 5:30am.
The route will be a lap of the river WITHOUT the Mosman casino spiele Park Hill. The pace will be faster than a usual novice ride and slower than a main group ride.
dr ronny
This is Scott’s baby more than mine. There is a demand for a ride though to help transition the novice guys up to the main group. Sometimes even the Tuesday recovery ride can be a little fast. This would ideally be a sub 30km/hr ride. I know from experience when I started with SPR that even the Tuesday was just a bit hard.
Thanks Toby, typo error. I was writing two posts at once! I think it’ll be a good ride for those wanting to get a bit faster and also for those who wanna take it easier.
Thanks Ronny, happy to get this off the ground, as have heard from a few novices they would like to step up but bit unsure of the pace etc.
Having made the transition myself I know some of the challenges and the uncertain feeling u get at stepping up to the next level. Hopefully this will also aleviate the issues for Ronny of having such a large and mixed group for the new novices and give older(longterm riders not age) novices the confidence they need to progress.
Look forward to seeing some of you there this week.
Roughly what time would this group finish and where?
It is sad to say there is an uncomfortable push from the novice group for some of us riders to go up to the main group and it is here that I want to clearly say that I for one do not feel ready. I know that there are a few others that are feeling very uncomfortable to say the least. I thought a Novice group was there to teach riders to ride in a group. There is admittedly a group within the novice that is riding faster but some of those members have only been riding with us for 3 weeks maybe less and I feel it is very unproffesional for anyone to try and push people up to ride in a group where they feel very uncomfortable and would feel very unsafe – it would be a grave mistake indeed if a novice rider were to venture into the Main group and cause an accident. I know I would never get over that. Why is there this push in the first place, without any consideration of this group?? The Novice group has definatley grown over the past 3 weeks and I think saturdays count was 22 the biggest number so far. It is great to see the growth but growth also means dynamics in the group change and that can be uncomfortable for some. However the change happens to allow the growth. I’m stumped – if you read the AGM minutes that Peter has posted it says there we must encourage new riders and if the riders are comfortable in the Novice for a while yet – why is there a push still?
Hi Lynda, I’m sorry if you feel that people are trying to push you to the main group. That is of course, not the intended idea. The ride has been proposed as, like you say, there are some within the group, some of which have recently joined, that want a faster ride. This ride will give them that opportunity. It is no one intention to put people under pressure to ride with people and at a pace they feel uncomfortable with. In fact, the idea is cater for more people by making a new ride at a different level (between the usual novice and main group paces). Once again, I’m sorry for any confusion that has been caused but I would encourage people, both novices who want a faster ride and main group riders who want a slower ride, to come along and have an enjoyable ride.
Hi Ronny I do understand where you are coming from there is just an uneasy feeling on Saturdays just lately, and its not making me feel very happy to be honest. I dont no who the riders are that you are speaking about but there are several who have been “asked” to go up to the main group who are clearly not ready and feel uncomfortable about the question. It is great that there is a new level of riding being introduced – can we see that level on a Saturday morning too – within the Novice Group? I hope Tuesdays ride is great for those that can get there. Cheers Ronny and thanks for all your help with the Novice riders we really appreciate your input 🙂
i think that the novice group has grown quite a lot in a short amount of time which shows a lot of confidence in both the people running the group and the people in the group itself.
much like the main groups, once it hits a certain number, you need to split in order to make it enjoyable for everyone. the biggest problem with the novice group will be the spread of abilities. these differences can generally be hidden within the main groups as you can just sit in and enjoy the ride. in the novices it is more obvious.
this coming week i plan to get in contact with a few of the novice riders and see what we can do to keep the group running smoothly. it has been suggested to split the group and i think this is a good idea. however, as lynda has suggested, there is no reason for us to push the novices into the main group if they are not happy/ready to. we need to look at how much attention the groups need. the trouble with splitting the group is that we need to find 2 people to run the group and then we need someone to step up to provide coverage when the leaders aren’t there. these things just don’t happen and we need people to be proactive in keeping the group going. in this case, maybe some of the “experienced” novices can help out with the new novices. at the end of the day it is all about imparting knowledge to other riders.
one suggestion is that the more experienced novices form a group that travels the same route that the intermediate group follows. not mixing in with the group, but just following on behind. it is important for general skills development that these riders learn how to ride on busier roads too. the new novice group can stay on quieter roads to develop basic skills, and maybe move up to the second novice group.
now the novice group may not be the only place we need to make changes. i hear that the saturday morning ride has had some massive turn outs over the past few weeks. we may need to look at sending the advanced and intermediate groups out on totally separate paths as the group may be too big to ride all together. i am reluctant to do this as it removes some of the social aspect of the group and forms an us and them mentality. however, if we all meet back at the same coffee shop, then this shouldn’t be an issue.
anyway, just some thoughts on where i see the training rides moving too in the future. the most important thing is to make sure everyone enjoys their rides and everyone makes it home safely.
peter
Hi Lynda. I myself have not asked anyone to move and was unaware that people had been “asked” to do so. In my opinion, I would discourage any rider in the novice group moving up UNTIL they are very comfortable with both the pace and the skills required to join the main group. The Tuesday morning ride will hopefully “fill in” the big gap between the novice and main groups and allow such riders to work on both their fitness and group riding skills in a situation which is more like the main group (eg. on main roads with fewer regroups). I’m sorry that I have been unaware that some people have felt pressured. However, I have also felt that some people would appreciate and relish the opportunity to join a faster ride, but are not quite fast enough or experienced enough, to join the main group safely. Scott is hoping that the additional Tuesday morning ride can fill this void.
I expect the ride to finish at Atomic Cafe in South Perth at about 7:15am (same as the normal Tuesday ride).
Thanks for the input Pete. I haven’t been aware about talk regarding a split to the Novice group but can see the benefits of doing so and think that, if possible, it would make many people happier by providing a ride for all abilities.
Thanks for the reply Peter. I do see where you are coming from and am happy to help where I can. I feel when there is change there is a lot of unecessary gossip and people making decisions by themselves that may not be helpful at the end of the day to the group as a whole. Ronny I agree with you totally and I know that you always have the good of everyone in your heart. The Tuesday morning is a great idea and well done for orgainising that for us. It is a shame that there will be a few people from the novice group that may like to participate but can’t make the time on tuesdays. I guess with the suggestions that Peter has placed in his answer these little hiccups will be iorned out and the group can run smoothly with people feeling happy where they are riding. I am really enjoying my riding and look forwards to helping others do the same. 🙂
I wish I could but I won’t be able to make the Tuesday morning ride with the group. I will still be out on my normal route around the river Tuesday morning but due to work commitments need to be home again by 7am in order to get ready and off to work. I am only a new comer to this club and been on the novice ride the last two weekends. I can’t speak before that but as for this weekends novice group I do agree there was a distinct difference in speed between at least four of us. Unlike the week before the majority of the ride was very stop / go or maybe better described as slow fast.
From the top of majestic I think its called and back again I was up the front and leading with others until the return to majestic. Each time we got all caught up, we as a group or at the front seemed to take of and within a minute or so we were being pulled back again. On the return from the Raffles to the Bell tower myself and I think Michael (Sorry still trying to learn names) pulled a large lead over the next pair in the group and I think we arrived at the Bell Tower around 3 minutes before the next two riders came in. I hope this doesn’t sound like I am blowing my trumpet because when I went with the what I now know was the Advanced group I realised that the ride to the base of the hills was a walk in the park for them and was probably at or close to my current limit. But when we hit the hills it was another story. I was clearly out of my element. I made it up the first time only just but when they wanted to back it up with a second run up Kalamunda road every leg mussel told me it wasn’t going to happen.
So now that I have bored you to sleep I do believe that this idea of a second or middle group novice group would be beneficial and I would put myself my hand up for it.
Im up for trying the Tuesday morning ride! thanks Scott! hopefully you wont punish us too much 🙂
Im keen for extra opportunities to improve. Im definately one that feels a bit unconfortable with both my abilites and group riding skills (and wouldnt like to put anyone at risk or end up riding on my own as I am slightly navigationaly challenged!) but happy to support what is decided and have a go!( not as brave as Scott!)
Thanks to all of you guys and the extra opportunities (Tues/Wed) i feel im making some headway. I think its wicked that we have so many new people, only 2/3 months ago we were lucky to get 4 riders.
See you then
Tracy
Good to read the input and discussion on this topic so far. When speaking to Ronny this morning, this was an idea in its infancy. The idea of a Tuesday Intermediate (between novice & the main group)ride was an idea to give riders more options. This week was to be a trial to see how much interest there was and to gauge the situation for those wanting that little more. It is not a regular ride as yet but a litmus test. There was no intention of pushing riders up a level, just an opportunity for some to grow & progress if they felt ready. If the interest is there, as Peter mentioned we will definately look at a similar thing for Saturdays when more of the novice riders can make it.
Either way I will be there Tuesday morning if anyone feels like giving it a go. As Ronny said we will head off the same as the main group but be just behind and take a few shortcuts from their course so as to get back to @Atomic by 0700-0715 and also avoid some of the big climbs.
Great idea to offer this option to help riders improve and progress – just sorry I haven’t been able to make it out recently with the group
Hey guys, my 2c – same as Nathan, I’ve only ridden with the novices for these past 2 Saturdays, and while I really enjoyed it both times, it was probably a little too restrained for me. Being the novice group, I can completely understand why the pace isn’t high, and certainly don’t expect it to be raised, to the detriment of newer riders. I understand what Lynda is saying too, and certainly agree that everyone should ride where they feel most comfortable with their abilities.
However, as mentioned, there does seem to be a few of us that are comfortable with a bit more pace, but probably aren’t ready to just mix in with the main group yet, either for reasons of ability/fitness, or just not fully confident in their group riding skills, like me. I know that I’d appreciate a ride where I can keep a good pace, while still having the chance to improve my group skills (and make the odd mistake), without endangering/annoying more the experienced riders in the main group, or being dropped off the back all the time.
I think an ‘intermediate’ ride like this will certainly suit some riders. I’m hoping to be there Tuesday morning, and I guess we’ll see how it goes after that!
Hi Michael, I would encourage you to come. It’s a little early but I’ve always found that once I’m out there, I have a great time (and if I stay in bed, I regret it the rest of the day). It’s really a ride for people like you, so come along and make it what you want. I understand Scott has many tricks up his sleeve for shortcuts through Applecross and Dalkeith.
This sounds tailor made for some of us in the novice group. I’ll be there to give it a go.
Thanks Scott – your insight and experience moving from novice to the main group is very valuable; the intermediate ride will cater for the inbetween novices, especially those who have indicated they feel constrained (frustrated) in the novices.
Peter – my 2c worth – the main group is getting bigger and faster with some (I believe) falling off the back so with the right support, the novices off their L’s and on their P’s who want to go faster could potentially be accommodated on the Saturday ride. If there was someone experienced to lead and manage a small number of novices then safety would be maximised – it is not the distance, mostly just the uncertainity and some group dymanamics would need to be covered and where the cyclists of the same ability are following and not leading this will be easier. Of course no one should move to the main group until they are comfortable.. the ones who want to move have already indicated they are ready. The thing that is great about SPR is it has so many levels and people do look out for each other.
I will be doing the usual Kings Park loop on Tuesday 6-7am for anyone who wants to come along.
I have enjoyed riding with the novices for four or five weeks. The first couple of times with 10 to 12 riders was great. However, after it reached about 20 riders it was pretty hard to keep the group together. On the last ride a group of faster riders took off up the Shelley foreshore in a separate group. The rest of us didn’t keep up with them. With such a large group all we seem to manage to be able to do it ride together as a group (sometimes).
I, like some of the other novices, feel I am not ready to join main group because of my lack of speed and group riding skills.
My suggestion would be to form two novice groups (novice and intermediate?) to work on different skills. Perhaps one group could go south and one could go north?
It’s great to see so many people joining the novice group and I hope a solution can be found to keep all of the riders happy.
Thanks Greg. Before we continue, can I make the following suggestion – If there is a new group to form, between the Novice and Main groups, I suggest calling it the “Easy” or “Social” group. That way, the four groups would be “Fast”, “Main”, “Easy/Social” and “Novice”. The pace of the group would be best described as “easy or social” (let’s not call it “slow” 🙂 Calling it “intermediate” may cause some confusion with the main group which is really THE intermediate pace (between fast and novice). Some new members with plenty of group riding experience but only “average” pace, may accidentally join a group called “intermediate” when really they would be more suited to the main group.
“That way, the four groups would be “Fast”, “Main”, “Easy/Social” and “Novice”.”
Sounds good to me! 🙂
I have been riding with Carole since the winter, when there only two of us. I feel we need to have a pre-ride briefing on Saturday morning. We have an average rider speed of 16 to 28km/h ave; We have to ensure that those at the slower end of the range are accompanied (that’s what a group ride is) on Saturday Carole and myself dropped off the group to take a new rider around. So that everyone can enjoy their ride, I feel we have to share this responsiblity on a weekly basis.
absolutely ! Im happy to roster to do this
Hi all. Great to see Scott and Toby (after his success in the Northern Districts crits) doing a stellar job leading the transition/intermediate/easy-social group this morning on their 5:30 loop around the river. They seemed to have everyone well organised as they waited to regroup after the hilly section at Point Walter. Michelle, my other half and “she who must”, certainly enjoyed the chance to ride the big loop on the roads with a supportive group this morning.
If I could put on my SPCC committee member/Development Officer hat briefly, I like Tracy’s (I think it was her post) initial label of “Transition group” for the new group of riders who are between the novice and main groups. Quite a few of the riders have ambitions to become “main group” riders and still others use the rides to train for triathlons, community rides and Cyclosportif events, so “easy/social” may not reflect their endeavour (Michelle, Jackie and Tze-Quen are never “easy”).
So that would give a club ride structure of Fast, Main, Transition, Novice, with lots of opportunity to move between each level.
Coming down the Freeway bikepath in the opp. direction after the fast ride on Saturday, the novice group did look a bit of a shemozzle with Carole, Debbie, Jackie and the new rider on their own and then little pockets of twos and threes with big gaps inbetween after that. The novice ride should be able to accommodate new riders and stay together. Club group rides are about riding together and supporting one another, not showing how strong you are (unless you are in the fast group of course; that’s all about showing who’s the boss, but everybody makes that choice knowingly).
To improve their group riding skills, both the novice and transition groups need to spend less time on the bike paths and more time on the roads. The paths are dangerous and narrow even without the commuters, riders can ride in twos safely (and talk), intersections allow the group to get used to the group signals and calls, traffic lights allow riders to drink and catch their breath, regroups are easier, and learning to lead, roll-off and roll through can be practised more easily.
I’ll relinquish my opportunity to cling to Ryan/Brendan/Matt/Steve’s back wheel to take the Transition group on a road course (a modified version of whatever the Main group is doing) this Saturday if needed. I’m assuming Dr Ronnie is available for the Novice group. Cheers.
This must the record for the number of entries following any ride – shows lots enthusiasm which is all good for SPR.
I am happy to assist DrR or any one else this coming Sat morning with the Novice or Transition rides and Gwyn will be coming too – so see you all at the pre-start briefing.
Cheers Mark S
Thanks Michael (Michelles sign other) for volunteering Its great you guys help us out ! Thanks to DrRonny and Mark as well! Ill see you all Sat !
We’d like to also confirm we definiately have a easy 6:30 am Sunday ride. If I can figure out how ill post the Mapmyride route ( help with this anyone ? do I just post the link it comes up with ?)
Easy 6:30 Sunday ride link !
http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/australia/south-perth-freo-via-cannington-return/931126405795861702
No worries, Tracy. Pete has pulled rank and poor form, so he will be Transition leader this week. Michelle is keen to do both rides over the weekend. It’s great to see the growth in this sector of the club thanks to your and others’ enthusiasm. (On the down side it means I’ve no excuse not to ride with Ryan on Sat.)
sorry, mike. i didn’t read the comments before i posted the ride routes. i could always use your help on the transitional ride if you don’t want to push that heart too much chasing ryan.
Just wanted to say that the name “Transition” is awesome!
I wouldn’t mind coming along with the “transiiton” group this week with Pete. If anything, just to see how he does it and how the group copes with the faster pace now that the “leash” has been taken off 🙂