45 thoughts on “ride routes 1st & 2nd oct”

1. I’m happy to run with the Trans group again this Sat – however if the group is as big as last week (25 ish) I will want to split it into two and will be looking for a volunteer to take the other half – it was getting too strung out and bedraggled last week.

2. Pete, I like your idea. Last week, and for a few weeks, M2 has been too large a group to manage for safety and enjoyment of everybody. The spread of fitness, skills and what the riders want to get out of the Saturday ride is very broad in M2 and even greater when M3 join us.
   It always worries me when people struggle early in the ride. They might of bitten off more than they can chew, they don’t enjoy it, and its has an effect on the rest of the bunch.
   From a M2 perspective, it is nearly always the same 10 – 12 riders who are pushing on in the last couple of kilometres. These would be the ideal candidates for M1.5.
   A few times though because of lights etc, we have ended up with 20+ riders of various skills, confidence and fitness in the last couple of Km’s and that variety makes people nervous.
   I am happy to lead the M1.5 group (if people want me to), and if so, I would probably run it much the same as M2. That is, it would be a good hit out but with a managed regroup somewhere along the ride, and an acceleration on the way home.
   I would suggest we encourage discussion on the opportunity during sat ride and come to a decision for the following week.

3. What’s a ride etiquette? 😉

4. a ride etiquette is an etiquette which has a “nil zak tolerance”. M1.5 sounds like a good plan. holmes rd better not have any hills in it.

   1. My first thought too Lennie, checked the route profile and it looks lie an inverted U. Hope you will tow me over.

   2. pancake flat lennie. would i put a hill in the saturday ride???

   3. Where were you Lennie, I needed a hand?

   4. McLennie, pretty sure the ride etiquette does not include bad scottish accents (I know you so desperately want to be Scottish as you’re used to losing….).

      Anyhoo, you know exactly what happens to you every time you try. 🙂

5. Does the sat group wait for dropped riders (not mechanicals)? Ta

6. OK…studying map intensely. I know I’m guilty of being on the front and having to call back to ask which way we’re supposed to be going! Why is it that it always seems to get to my turn on the front just as I reach unfamiliar territory :-/

   M1.5 sounds the perfect place to slot in an extra group.

7. I’m newish to Perth and the SPR group and need to familiarise myself more with the ride routes too.
   Another item worth mentioning is making sure you call out/signal debris and pot-holes if you’re on the front. At least 4 or 5 riders in Main Group 1 hit a major pot-hole last week that should have been called and then easily avoided.
   Cheers.

   1. +1. Don’t be shy, YELL it out!! 🙂

   2. Agreed Stuart…. From someone who has ridden a long time with SPR I was a bit surprised at the lack of calling of hazards and at intersections on that particular ride!
      And, at risk of whinging, the number of riders who rolled up beside cars stopped at red lights instead of waiting behind… Read the etiquette!

8. Main 1.5 is a great idea Peter, and Russell it would make it a perfect plan if you were our “leading man.”. I agree, M2 has got too big, too disjointed, and too multi-skilled!

9. we have some interim ride leaders for the m1.5 group this week. carlos and meg will be looking after it to see how we go.

10. Thanks Carlos and Meg, and also Bonner, Toby, Mark etc for helping out with 1.5 on Saturday. It was safe, yet snappy…. a brilliant ride!

11. Is it definitely that we needed another group because the others are getting too big or is it that we all need to re-assess which group we should actually be riding in? This is an honest question.

    I know that we all get into habits and think that we’re still in the correct ability for a particular group but perhaps if we all had a quick think, maybe it’s time to try out another. Same goes with friendships riding, i know we all like to ride with our friends but we must make sure that we’re the right ability for that group that our friends are in.

    So what im saying is, perhaps if you’re riding off the front of a group every week, and hurting the others rather than challenging them, it’s time to try the next group up for size. Similarly, if you know that every week you’re hanging on for dear life at the back of the group, cant participate in roll throughs etc then maybe you should go back down a group.

    I think that riding in the incorrect group may also be having an impact on our ability to roll through successfully and is causing them to become dangerous.

12. Not Another Roll-Through!

    I know I am going to be lambasted but here goes anyway…

    Saturday’s ride in Main 1 was a bit of an eye-opener and I would like to make a few suggestions/observations. Firstly, roll-throughs in large groups are stupid. They are great in a small group of about 10-15 riders but are inevitably messy and inefficient in a large group. In large groups riders should do turns on the front rather than pointless, and messy roll-throughs. Sure, roll-throughs work in the fast group but the numbers are smaller, they are very very fast and done for a purpose (to drop as many riders as possible).

    Now, I realize roll-throughs are more of a group training/bonding exercise in the main groups and that people find it fun and it makes you feel like a pro, so I would not dare suggest that they be stopped. What I would suggest is that, just as an exercise, they get pretty tedious after the novelty wears off, and there are many more group riding techniques that could be practiced as well. Unfortunately, it seems that if you do anything other than ‘another roll-through’ you get in trouble with the ‘Ride Nazis’.

    Take Saturday main 1 for example. Yes, we did the obligatory roll-throughs that were just silly in such a large group. Then, after the hills we were on a long straight road with a tail wind and someone decided to do something different! He jumped off the front of the group. “Great” I thought, I bridged across to him and we started working together to keep away from the group. This was great practice for working in a breakaway and I thought that the group would relish the opportunity to organize themselves to chase us down (also great practice for the group) and maybe do a proper roll-through with a purpose.

    We stayed away for a fair while but it was obvious we were always going to get caught. To my amazement the ride leaders came up to us and chastised us for ‘stringing out’ the group and promptly got on the front to slow things down for the next 10km! The rest of us just sat behind looking at each other thinking “What the f@*%”. It seemed we were being punished with the pace set so slow that riders were saying, “Is this supposed to be training or what?” The grumblings got louder and there was even talk of starting a Main 0.5 group for those that wanted to do more than just pointless roll-throughs and a casual cruise.

    I know it is very hard being a ride leader and I do not blame them in the least. There are always some that think it is too fast and others will think it is too slow. I would just suggest that they are a little more tolerant and accommodating to those that want to practice skills other than roll-throughs. There was really no question of the group being smashed or riders being left behind – once the chasers caught us it was going to be sit-up and recover time and any stragglers would have caught up. Being main 1, I would have expected a little bit of a push rather than just a social ride.

    It seems to me that the rides have become too formularized and if anyone does anything outside the script they are criticized. Script: warm up – open road, messy roll-through – traffic lights, slow down – another open road, another messy roll-through, more traffic lights, slow down – pick up the pace on the way home – back at the river, sprint finish – The End. And don’t dare do anything different!

    Years ago I rode with a group that had a ‘hares and hounds’ section. The stronger riders would do an extra small loop along the route, which would put them 1km behind, and then they would work together to chase back onto the main pack. Obviously the main pack would be working to hold them off as long as possible. This was great fun and gave riders of different levels the opportunity to ride together, get a good workout and also practice other skills. With the smaller temporarily split group, roll-throughs actually made sense and could be done properly – tight, fast, efficient and with a purpose (catch them hares or keep away from them hounds).

    Groups could even be split into teams e.g. sprinters and climbers. The Holms Rd. route would have been great for this – the sprinters could work together to try and drop the climbers on the way out (and get to the climb first). Then the climbers could work together to try and make as big a gap as they can over the hills. On the way home the sprinters could get re-organized to try and chase down the climbers. If the outcome is based on the last rider of the team, then the teams would have to stay together and help the slower riders. The teams could even plan tactics depending on the course or team member’s strengths, etc. (another skill worth practicing).

    There are many skills that could be practiced on the group rides but sadly most are ignored or discouraged (I won’t even mention bike handling skills).

    1. there is a reason we do things that way we do things and that is for the safety of the group. not only have you criticised the way that we run the groups, you have also attacked the members of the club that give up their time and ride to make sure that it runs smoothly.

       the type of ride that you describe does exist and it is called the fast group where we know that the riders have the skills and fitness to be able to look after themselves. unfortunately you have not been able to keep up with this group in the past, so now you want to push that same model onto the next group down where you can force the pace. sorry, it doesn’t work that way.

       not only are you having a go at how we run the groups, you are also having a go at the skills of the people that were in the group with you. yes, the roll through may have been messy in some parts, but this was not at all helped by your actions. both during and after the ride, i had 3-4 different people come up to me and complain about your riding and how you cut people off in the middle of a roll through. i saw that one person tried to talk to you about it at the end of the ride but you had a few words and then just rode off.

       this is a group training ride and choosing to ride in it means that you are choosing to ride as part of a group. yes there is a formula, and yes there are some easy parts to the ride. if you notice, most of the rides come home with a tailwind on a double lane road so we don’t become a traffic hazard or a safety risk when the pace increases. this is not a closed road circuit or a race, so why are you trying to make it one. also, what tactics involve drafting behind a truck for the last 8kms.

       you were warned about posting these comments and you chose to ignore me on this. you have basically called us stupid, ride nazis, the ride pointless and the riders generally unskilled. if i don’t see you in the group again, i will not loose much sleep over it.

       try not to get yourself killed, especially doing something that gives the rest of us cyclists a bad name. (like last week when you went through a roundabout without looking and cut a car off).

       peter – president south perth cycle club.

    2. Firstly I am the guy who had go at those of you who chose to string the main 1 group out on Saturday. My apologies if the tone I used at the time was rude, most of my blood was in my legs after chasing to the front, so perhaps I could have been more polite.
       (For the record I am also the guy who last week had a go at those of you who chose to ride up the left of stationary traffic at the lights on the Roe Highway overpass.)
       My reason for doing so was as it’s a group ride, not a race. Read the first two points on the ride etiquette page, there was a prompt on the route notes for this week. Your comments indicate that you may not have ever read these.
       At the risk of repeating some of the others comments, and to address some of your points:
       1. The rides have become too formulaic; this is deliberate, from that predictability comes some level of safety. We have enough to worry about without adding too much risk.
       2. Roll throughs in large groups are messy.
       In my experience there are a number of reasons for this, all of which can be easily overcome:
       a. some riders are unaware and/or unwilling to ride at the pace of those weaker than themselves; slow down to speed up
       b. there is a lack of communication; I personally find disturbing the lack of talk in the main 1 bunch the last couple of weeks. Call the obstacles, call “all clear” at intersections, call “ last wheel” as you pull through at the back, tell the slow lane to slow down if people aren’t easing off once they drop into the slow lane
       c. people do not ride in a controlled, predictable manner; eg accelerating too hard at the front, this is a pet peeve of mine
       d. and yes, some level of fatigue will cause those moving up a level to perhaps not ride as tidily as others expect; see above for solutions
       3. I am reasonably sure that the fast group does not set off with the express aim of dropping as many as possible as soon as possible. As I understand it, it is a fast, race pace ride. That race pace may be A grade one week or somewhat slower the next dependent upon who is out.
       4. Your point with regards to previous hare & hound type rides and spicing up the ride by varying it is counter point to your argument that roll throughs are boring/messy. Each of these types of rides still require roll throughs to be ridden at a pace by a group. Regardless if you mix it up you still require group riding skills, communication and riding in a safe controlled manner.
       As has been noted by others your own actions in cutting into the fast lane impacted upon the flow of the roll through (refer 2b and 2c above). Similarly your actions in chasing and getting a tow from a truck endangered not only yourself but encouraged others to take risks and potentially endanger themselves and the group. I am no Saint on this point myself, having done similar in the past. I had intended to discuss these points with you personally post the ride but you were not around for me to do so.
       As I understand it you are not a member of SPCC. I do not know how long you have been riding on club rides but you should understand that these rides have grown from weekend rides of a bunch of like-minded people to the largest metropolitan club in WA (happy to be corrected on that) with organised group rides every day of the week. The Club is obviously doing something right.
       Again my apologies if I put anyone offside with my tone on Saturday but I will not hesitate to do the same again if I believe people are riding outside the club guidelines.

13. Apropos some of the posts above:

    Main 1.5 was a nice ride because people were supportive and flexible, keeping things manageable into the wind, up hills etc. but stretching the legs as a group on the way home. The leaders made sure that the group rode for the majority’s enjoyment – which means riding together – rather than trying to break things up.

    I agree with Anna that people shouldn’t be riding off the front of the Main groups (or the Trannies for that matter. Mark wouldn’t allow it anyway.) The groups are meant to be social training rides where we ride as a group for the benefit of others and ourselves, preferably in that order. There needs to be a mentality shift back to this basic principle (and less egoism) in some of the groups.

    Riding above yourself and getting dropped is more pardonable (though you do need to be realistic about it) as the Main groups will/should have regroups after difficult sections and there are groups following to pick you up if you’ve bitten off more than you can chew on that day.

    Ess, this won’t be a lambasting as we more mature cyclists should stick together, but all of this talk of breakaways, bridging, staying away, teams, sprinters and climbers etc. sounds far too much like race talk for a Saturday club ride. Saturday rides are not surrogate races, even in the Fast group. Sundays with numbers on your back are for that.

    The rationale behind the roll-throughs is to raise the collective speed of our peleton on a smooth, uninterrupted section – we all enjoy riding faster without having to do much extra work. It is meant to get those who hide down the back too often contributing, a break up to the usual two by two (of a few) pattern. It is also good practice for Cyclosportifs and real races – for everyone. It sounds like the roll needs to be dropped back by 2 or 3 kms per hour until the group can do it without dropping wheels or losing their bike-handling through fatigue. Perhaps the roll-throughs can be reduced if pairs do shorter but slightly faster turns on the front, and more pairs are willing to work steadily for the group (be domestiques for a day, maybe even ride for those who are struggling).

    For those that want to stretch themselves thoroughly, the Thursday and Saturday Fast groups are there for that purpose. On Sundays, there are the designated hill climbs and actual races. But not in the Main groups (hence the dissatisfaction).

14. Ess…were you the guy I saw in a park shouting at that 4 yr old girl on the pink trike about her bad handling skills?
    Your a champion buddy. Please stop riding and take up professional hermit-ing

15. Main 1.5 on saturday was great fun. We got pretty strung out with the head wind and gradient along Lewis & Holmes Roads, but I don’t think anyone felt inconvenienced by having a regroup after that.
    I just wish I didn’t get lost off Kalamunda Rd before getting to enjoy that sweet tail wind along Guildford…all my own fault there :-/

16. Unfortunately I don’t think I have had the pleasure of riding with Ess. Ess, come ride with me in fast, we will encourage you to push the pace off the front. Not sure you classify yourself as a sprinter or hill man but doubt sprinters will get to climbs before the climbers but there will be splits on the climbs if there are any on the sat ride.

    The rides may be frustrating at times but the reason they work is because they have the group as a whole in mind and safety is paramount. Our club is growing and sitting out the rides is always going to be tough as main one swells.

    It was good to see a larger fast group this week, made it almost impossible to drop short of people (a challenge for certain riders, in three belief it makes others stronger :). There were some people who stepped up from main 1 and I think they enjoyed it.

    Maybe a group between main one and fast would work. Another group where if you drop off you get picked up by main one. Or even they could start with fast until the pace went up, then they could drop off together and try to stay ahead of main one. But safety still has to be important so no risk taking to stay ahead our to catch up. Staying trucks its a very dumb practice at any time let alone on a group ride. It does not make you appear stronger, just helps you look like an idiot.

    Anyway, in summary. Our rides are working. I think something needs to be done to main one. To make out smaller and to get the work being shared target than having a few people spending the majority of the ride on the front. A roll through helps identify who is out of their depth as well.

    Happy riding and see you out there. Stay safe and don’t ride too much,I don’t want too many more people getting stronger and making me work harder.

    🙂

17. hmmm writing on phone with auto correct means a few out of place words. I hope first of comment was understood..

    Alistair how does one get list on a group ride? Stop for a natural break? When is the Cervelo coming back?

18. I have not made it along to the Saturday ride fot a couple of months. That aside. The stories I have heard recently and some of the antics I’ve heard. This is not the way I remember things. it was this time last year I was off the road for two months because of a crash on a Saturday morning ride. A factor was that no one called slowing in front& I was caught off guard.

    I don’t know what has changed over the last couple months but a ride leader is there for a reason. They are the ones making the calls. If they pull you up then its because the group is no longer riding as a group.

    Peter is right. It’s not a race never has been. We don’t race on the open road. That would make us equal to a hoon behind the wheel of a car.

    I think ill keep to the weekday rides. It’s the same routine week in and out but its safe. Then you get the days where it just all comes together and the ride is awesome. You know when those days are because when I get back to work SAFELY I blog about it with a grin ear to ear.

19. Ryan, different Alistair. I’m the one with a beard, not a Cervelo 😉

    I followed some green jerseys down a left turn off Kalamunda Rd only to see the rest of the group continue straight ahead. By the time i decided to backtrack and get back to the group i had lost site of them. It’s when i decided to take a ‘short cut’ that i got lost haha! http://app.strava.com/rides/1812534

20. It’s basic. If you are not interested in riding on our rides safely and for the enjoyment of all I suspect you may need to find another ride. Easy really.

    As for yelling at a four year girl old on a bike…..if it’s true, lucky for you it wasn’t my daughter.

    1. I’m guessing the 4yo bit was a joke 🙂

21. One other thing that happened on the Main 1 ride that Pete mentioned is that a few riders (Ess included) started drafting behind a large truck along Guildford Road, and took off into the distance, leaving the group behind.

    Now, I’m sure it’s fun, and when you’re out on a ride on your own, you are welcome to do whatever you want. However, when you’re on a group ride I don’t think it’s responsible behaviour. It’s not fair to the rest of the group to put yourself in a position where you might mash your face into the back of a truck. I don’t want to have to be the one to scrape you off the road, or call the police or your family.

    Like I said, when you’re out on your own? Knock yourself out. But on a group ride, remember you are part of the group.

22. Any Trans out there reading the blog . . .don’t fret too much since as you know this appalling behaviour vill never happen on ze Tee ride – at zee start off zee Teez ride-en in zee future yu vill all be issued wiz zee arm bands und vill all do ixaktly az you haf bin tuld und anyvun who dessobeys ze orders off der Riden-Fuher ont arrivzing at ze Bellunt Tower-un vill be draggened in frunt of ze riden- Kommandant and vill bee shot – Achtung Yah!

23. I thought the speculation as too which team Cavendish goes was the current big news……now I’m far more interested in which club Ess transfers too; hopefully he will tells us soon. Though I do suspect he’s already been pushed out of a few !

24. Main 1.5 was superb on Saturday. As Alison said, snappy, huge fun and safe. Many thanks to Megs, Carlos, Tobes, the wee Scott and our State Champion for that one; it was awesome.

    Ess. I do confess. I am one of those tragic individuals who quite simply LIVE for my SPR rides. Particularly my Saturday SPR ride. Sad, I know. But it is THE highlight of my week. And it seems I’m not alone in this. So when someone like yourself comes along trying to wreck both mine and the group’s enjoyment by doing their best to deliberately split it apart by riding off the front and riding in an unsafe manner, I get really angry.

    These rides are not a race. So it seems you are trying get some weird satisfaction from racing against riders who aren’t even racing. A bit like trying to race a commuter on the bike path who isn’t racing. Really, how ridiculous is that?? So perhaps the best way forward for you is to a) get a race license and race in a race which is a designated, organised race; or b) ride in the FAST group or c) go find another club

    1. Lennie I thought you lived for the Friday SPr ride because we always spot you hiding in amongst other groups rest of the weekdays. See you at the Bell Tower tomorrow. (HypocriteI know 🙂 )

25. I must submit an apology to the Main 1 group (and the club). I was the one with Ess on the front along Guildford Rd who raced and drafted the Truck. Yes yes, I have been told….. I will be paying my penance by joining the Fast group, and volunteering to assist the Ride Leaders in some slower Groups. (Main 3 and Transitional look out…) That should re-adjust my perspective. (Just won’t be available this weekend)

    I made a split second decision, while wearing club kit on a club ride. Not something I should have done.

    Lennie, I too love my SPR rides, especially the Friday one. There are some changes (I think are) needed to fix the largeness of the groups on Saturday, but this is not something that I have a solution to, so I tell Pete my thoughts, and get a discussion going. Someone might have a good idea that we can adopt. However, if the consensus is that people are happy with the way things are being run, then I will defer to the majority (cause that’s what this club is about, and what the Committee are there for).

    Pete (and the other committee members) does a great job of making sure we as a club are responsible and SAFE, cater for all levels, and that we have a sense of community. If you don’t think these club values are for you, then there are plenty of other clubs that you can join or ride with.

    So, To Main 1 on Saturday, I apologise
    To the Club for my actions – I apologise
    To Pete and the other committee – I apologise
    To Main 3 and Transitionals – I hope that I can help out.

26. Well mr hypocite, I mean Nathan, I do hope no Ess’s or Ess wannabes start showing up on my cherished Friday ride. Which, not naming names (Nathan) was a complete fiasco last week. Usually I come to work grinning from ear to ear (like yourself, Nathan) .. but last Friday, we had people flying off the front down Shelleys in the nightmarish gale like conditions without first waiting for everyone to get on the gravy train (Nathan), people half wheeling others on the front in their bid to smash everyone in the wind (Nathan) and to top it all, we also had a couple of riders drafting trucks in rush hour traffic (granted, not Nathan .. but you’ve scored pretty highly thus far!!!!!). I’m praying there will be no repeat of such poor group riding spirit this Friday. But I look forward to seeing you Nathan mixed in amongst the Bell Tower grp tomorrow morning where you can sit on the front and drag us round the whole way; as long as you look after your Queen Lenster Bee ;0)

    1. I did not go off the front on Shelly you all went back to sleep. I did not start that off I pulled in front for my turn and then was left to do a Jamie. I am not a senior who rides with one of those helmet mirrors. It took Carlos to do his Whoosh Whoosh Whoosh to come pass on the message.

       Besides. It killed me taking such a turn and then you took advantage and chicked me. Opertunist maybe 🙂

       1. I must say im kinda confused, i was on that ride and i didnt really notice anything wrong with it :/ i do remember that bitch of a gale through shelley though. My only complaint about the ride would have been that, not naming names (‘NATHAN’) decided to be a little sissy and suck my wheel throughout all of shelley 😛 To do a jamie…. does that mean to do sumthing really epic or sumthin?

          1. You didn’t ask for assistance and you weren’t going that fast. I was just hoping you would close the gap up in front and get me back on 🙂

27. I really enjoy my Saturday morning SPR group training rides because they are exactly that – group training rides. And, for the most part they are well run and safe.

    Mike (and others) are right – SPR group rides are NOT races.
    Ess, you’re a complete wanna-be fool.
    Wear a number on your back and race if you dare – but dont just restrict yourself to Sunday, why not challenge yourself and race hard on a Friday night at the track (velodrome). Introduce yourself to me and we can go head-to-head for a few sprint rounds on the banked boards …..

28. Epic thread is epic.

29. Is it worth considering having two Main 1 groups? Main 1 was still pretty big last week even with the introduction of 1.5.
    In my opinion it was a good move separating the groups prior to starting on Saturday to see how many were going to be in each group. If this is done each week then the group leaders can make an informed decision whether to have one or two (or more) Main 1 (or 1.5, or Main 2….) groups.
    Just a thought.
    Cheers,
    Stuart.

30. wow – don’t think I’ve ever seen such a ‘blog post’ FAIL like that before.
    nuf said.

    1. Imagine if the site had a forum. This would never stop.

31. Lambaste –
    verb
    To hit heavily and repeatedly with violent blows: assail, assault, baste, batter, beat, belabor, buffet, drub, hammer, pound, pummel, smash, thrash, thresh. Slang clobber. Idioms: rain blows on.
    To criticize for a fault or an offense: admonish, call down, castigate, chastise, chide, dress down, rebuke, reprimand, reproach, reprove, scold, tax, upbraid. Informal bawl out. Slang chew out.

    Please check the list and see if anything has been overlooked

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