black and white

87 Comments

there has been a bit of discussion lately about the design of the kit that we currently have.  the two main comments that i have heard are that it is too dark and therefore unsafe for early morning riding and that it is too dark and therefore too hot during summer.  well we have had the design going for over a year now and so have lived through a summer and winter.  the suggestion is to do an alternative white version of the jersey. 

i am looking for some feedback (both positive and negative) on our current design.  the intention was originally not to change the current design till the end of 2012 when all the sponsors come to the end of their contract.  this mock up was just a quick and dirty and isn’t a final product by any standards.

give me feedback asap, as this discussion is essentially delaying the next kit order.  my view is…..well i will let you discuss it first.

87 thoughts on “black and white”

  1. I don’t love it but I don’t hate it. We will look less pro if we are a mix of kit. Also it is the same people that do the early bird ride and I have never heard one say that they are worried of getting run over because our kit is black, We had this discussion when we got this kit before.

    then again it will look shit with a black nix and white jersey as will my dark arm warmers. Leave it the way it is. When we ride in summer its not the kit that makes us hot its the activity. If you don’t want to get hot riding in summer then don’t ride!

  2. The current kit is too dark for my taste, it has made me want to stick to the old, I mean classic kit.

    When I come round a bend to see a bunch of SPR riders I am struck by the impression of a wall of black backs and black bums.

    If the mood does swing towards a lighter combo I think that would be a good thing.

  3. Firstly – I don’t ride in the current SPR kit except for a long sleeved skinsuit at road TT and track events (and that is in hiatus for 12 months…).
    Secondly – I have some advice for people who think they are hard to see in the dark – get some lights, and think it’s hot in a predominantly dark kit – toughen up princesses, it’s all in your mind !!
    Thirdly – i think the design of logos and layout on the kit is good, but personally, I have never liked the dark green and black. I think the sample white-based jerseys (above) are a MASSIVE improvement aesthetically and would be perfectly matched to a predominantly white bib-knick. I would buy them (and = join the club to have the priviledge to do so….)
    Lastly – the only constant is change – there will be a mix of kit for a while, but not long.
    Good idea Pete, it has my vote. Thanks.

  5. not bad.. I think our branding is green though & I am concerned as Nathan said that we dilute the club colours if we have another option..

  6. The current camoflague kit is probably great for racing, and may look cool (although any one with just a basic understanding of thermodynamics realises that what looks cool may in fact be hotter) . . . . . but its the opposite of ‘safety risk mitigation’ out on the road in daylight / dusk / dawn situations and gives myopic car drivers little help in planning their approach for negotiating around us. Two of my Tuesday evening ride buddies recently got cleaned up from behind early morning in Cambridge St – busted bones & broken bikes – so no winners there. The lighter and brighter the colours and the better the visibilty works for me. I’d be happy to buy & wear the new design for sure and it would be nice to conform, but until then I’m with DavidP and Specsavers continues to get free advertising.

  7. I like the lighter colours.

    As part of being safe, I think making us more visible on the roads is a proactive change. Having the lighter coloured kits does not guarantee any of us will not be hit by a car (touch wood), but it will eliminate at least one of the driver’s excuses of, “I didn’t see you because of you wearing “dark colours”!

    A potential problem with the colour “white” is that it stains very easily. For example the arm and neck lines get stained by sunscreen. On the above example having the black line bands is a good idea to prevent this problem. We could possibly have another “light” colour rather than white? For example light green or blue?

  8. i just want to put up one more option. we have sponsors committed to this kit till the end of the year. once that finishes we are looking at a redesign with any new sponsors that we sign for 2013/2014. an alternative is to stick with the current kit for this year, then change the design to a lighter design for next year. for those worried about buying a new kit then having to buy again next year, we will be doing the same thing we did the start of last year where we will subsidise the first run of the new design/sponsors.

    1. I think this is a good idea. I prefer the lighter colours of the older kit, but am happy to wait and change once the new sponsors etc are sorted.

    2. Yes leave design as is until the end of the year. I am against a mix of kit. This is my opinion. If people do not like it, think it is unsafe, or hot (all bulldust) THEY WONT BUY IT ANYWAY

  9. While I quite like the ‘look’ of it too, and I appreciate the increased safety, I also agree about the dilution of identity and loss of green. My suggestion is to re-visit and redesign the specsavers kit. And what would the jaffas call us? the minstrels ?? Also. can we lose the wiggles skivvy collar, or maybe make it a bit less tall, and taper the front of it down?

  11. just some clarification here. this is not about which jersey you think looks better, this is about whether there is a problem with the dark colours at night and during summer.

    1. Pete,
      My two cents. No matter what jersey you use at night it will be hard to see. That is what lights are for and all cyclists should have multiple lights to ensure they are seen, not worry about what colour they are wearing. As for whether it is appropriate for Summer, well another question could be “is it appropriate to have a white kit for winter” Road flick, dirt and grime may make this white kit look old very quickly.

      I think that if we do go down the two kits, we need to look at them to ensure they are interchangeable and work well together without loosing the clubs look.

      The Velominati have done this well with their White and Dark kits.

      http://www.velominati.com/gear/

      As for white knicks. This is a no no. There are several reasons, most of all because when they get wet (and they will) there is no hiding. No one wants to see that!

      I am happy to work with you on this to come up with some alternative strips and how we get a Light and Dark kit together.

  12. Does that mean there will be an older kit, this new kit and then next year another kit with/for new sponsors…. Sounds simpler to just leave it as it is for now!

  13. I have been looking for a good, white(ish) kit for a LONG time and amd yet to find it. Most recent attempt was expensive Campag that is now on its way back to the UK along with its “leaving nothing to the imagination” qualities! Reason for white? SAFETY! And not just mine. 4 weeks ago on the Monday ride, I and one other nearly cleaned up a pedestrian because it was low light (not dark enough for lights) and she didn’t see us (or hear us ‘cos she had headphones in).

    My preference is to move to White ASAP with ‘predominantly’ white knicks ie: like a black section across the ass as most blokes I know stop shaving mid way up their thigh…..you get the (very unflattering) picture)!!!

      1. Combine this comment with the little dance he was doing on his bike a few Mondays ago and I’m beginning to get mildly concerned about Rob.

  14. I like it too, and not just because it matches my new bike. I mainly save our black kit for race days, so an alternative would make for a good group ride top.

  15. I normally only wear the dark SPR kit when I’m doing the weekend group rides or a race. Safety in numbers while wearing dark colours plus I don’t want to stink up my club kit too quickly with repeated sweat fests. I really like the kit though.
    If a change is required, is it worth having a look at a more pronounced green in the kit? It’s already in the kit colours and a prominent part of the SPR brand. The Green Edge “green” (although slightly different) really stands out and I fell very “visible” when I’m wearing my similarly coloured kit.
    Not all that keen on white, although some of the Saxo Bank kits look ok.

  16. i reckon the safety aspect worthwhile – every bit helps in trying
    to get drivers to see me before they fail to give way at parry & camm ave roundabout every friday arvo. what’s that about?!

    kit looks good too.

    i take the point about the mixed kit, but don’t forget the all of the kit styles will still tied together by other ‘elements’ of the design than just the base colour. Might even look somewhat pro of us.

    the black sleeves good – white kit that won’t go yellow on the sleeves and collar from the sunscreen stains.

  17. I still prefer the original green/black and white kit we started with..

    Hence why I never bothered buying new kit this as I just dont like it.

    Hot/cold/brighter/low light etc is an old argument and thrashed to death! get over it if you want to be seen get decent front and rear lights… darker is hottor but f youre that worried about being hot dont ride in the sun….

  18. I actually like it….keeps the club fresh and ‘moving forward’
    safety is an aspect, but driver inattention will always be the dominant factor (provided you are in the right) if you are unfortunate and get clobbered by a car.

    (Just for the record – I had a white kit on when flattened by a tradesmen’s ute….who was less than 200 metres from his work address and with me – less than 2km from my home address)

  19. Not an expert of the field, but tend to think that proper lights will make you more visible than a lighter kit.
    My only request is….bring back the full zipper !!

  20. I like it, fresh and clean. The club colours are there still.
    I know this was brought up before, but I’m tending to think that only selling the kit to club members is a good idea now. Sorry I just thought I would throw that in.
    It makes it a bit exclusive and I will have to pay up!

    Ronan looks hot in the full zipper!

  21. New to the club and I don’t yet have kit, so I’ll be buying it regardless, BUT the old white based kit looks both better and more visible than the current predominantly black one.
    This one looks more like the original white one, so that’s great – if anything it would look great with a bit more green – but I’m happy overall, especially with the front design.

  23. “FUNCTION BEFORE FASHION”
    (as I used to tell my daughters!)
    The Function here is a Safety issue.

    Vicky and I only wear the black club kit on our saturday club group rides primarily due to visibility/ safety concerns.

    When riding in a large group i don’t think its a problem… BUT, if you ride to and from a ride solo, or get isolated from the group or commute, then you need to be seen. “Be Seen or Be Dead” its as simple as that.
    I feel each rider needs to be aware of this as the main safety priority.

    My greatest fear as a rider is being hit from behind by a vehicle, probably driven by someone pissed, drugged or distracted. The more you can do to increase your visibility reduces the risk.

    I also find the kit too hot generally.
    Possibly a combination of the Black colour and the material type.

    Pete,
    Thanks for opening this for discussion,
    Greg

  24. Current Kit looks good but may be a little tweeking could make it more visible. After watching the Tour of Flanders, Day Glow Yellow is really high Vis.
    Don’t know about day glow yellow for the shoes. Perhaps some flashes of a brighter colour on black might do the trick.

    1. high vis stripes might be a smart idea. they can be quite effective esp if covering a part of the body that is moving eg the outside leg-thigh.

  25. white kit = the training kit
    black kit = the race kit

    black kit is registered with CA and used for racing. the white kit is an option available for training for the people who would prefer to where that. maybe that’s an option? as we don’t race in the dark and whenever racing in abysmal conditions during winter we’d usually be wearing a gilet or full jacket. maybe these need to be in white…

    just an idea…

  26. I’m with Alistair on the ‘white kit’ and ‘black kit’ idea, plus Greg on the ‘Function before Fashion’ concept…suprising seeming I’m a girl. Personally I like both…the black looks ‘mean’ for racing, whilst the white is a little more laid back for recreational/training rides. We’d certainly be trend setters…what club have such choice. It could be a recruitment strategy Mr President :-).

    1. how about we swap – I like many others in the club don’t race, so would rather stick to my luverly black kit for training in. Those who race can make the additional purchase and have a nice flashy new white jersey for race day!

  27. “Strongly Agree” with the comments regarding safety… the dark green & black look great but are almost invisible on road as they blend too much into the background. Love the new design. Clean & sensible… & visible. Keen to order.

  28. I think change is good…….and I’m all for safety given the current state of affairs on our roads…….if it even helps a little, then that means a lot!

  30. I think the key point is that a major re-design is coming out again in just 6 to 8 months. Do we really want a new design so close to each other?

  31. Agree that safety is critical, but my understanding is that jersey colour has little impact on cyclist visibility at night. Reflective strips on a moving part of your body {or moving part of your bike} apparently far outweigh all other measures:

    http://www.bv.com.au/general/bikes-and-riding/92517/
    http://www.aushiker.com/cyclist-visibility-at-night-perceptions-of-visibility-do-not-necessarily-match-reality/

    These articles don’t mention bicycle lights, but it stands to reason that if you are not being illuminated by a light source (such as car headlights) then your bike lights are all that will be seen anyway.

    personnaly I don’t find the jersey colour it makes a big differnce to discomfort on stinking hot days either: it’s just hot and uncomfortable regardless so get up early.

  32. If everyone is so concerned about their safety, why aren’t we all wearing things like this, regardless of which kit we’re wearing:

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/respro-reflective-ankle-bands/
    or
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ronhill-vizion-snapband/

    Designing the kit for visibility isn’t going to work unless we all wear hi-vis clothing, because every colour blends in with something else. No colour is going to match all situations apart from hi-vis colours. Trying to pick a colour for this one reason only isn’t going to work.

    The club kit should be something that we all want to look good, and then it’s up to each member (or rider) to provide additional safety features that they feel comfortable with.

    Perhaps these accessories could be part of the club kit purchase, much like the gloves / warmers etc?

  33. I agree with the safety considerations raised by others, which is why I only wear my kit on the Saturday group rides. I also know of others who would be keen to buy a club kit if the colours were more visible. If it is possible/practical to retain a predominantly black kit for those racing that would be good too.

  34. i actually like the current kit. having said that, a white/dark green kit would look good too.

    in my opinion:

    1. a good, strong & bright rear light(s) is more effective to being visible compared to changing the color of the kit. i’m sure drivers will see the flashing red LED’s before they see our black/white rear ends.
    2. in summer i only ever get warm wearing the black kit when we’re stopped at the lights… which isn’t long
    3. like a few others have brought up, is it a good idea to bring out an alternative kit when the current design & sponsors is due to be changed for 2013?

    i like the idea of a ‘race’ kit and a ‘training’ kit but perhaps this could wait till next year when the new design/sponsors is finalised?

  35. The main issue for me Pete is the QUALITY of our kit. The tops don’t fit, the material is not top notch and the nicks elastics are too tight and they shred.
    I think we can do much better in terms of manufacturer for the same price. I recently bought the Glen Parker kit: It is very good quality, made in Italy by Bergamo, fits beautiful and same price or even cheaper than Cannibal.
    It is worth considering before we put another order

    5. +1
      I find myself reluctantly wearing the kit, and mainly only to race – to show our colours. And I find wearing our club kit comes at a cost to comfort, which affects performance.
      I would really like to see a different manufacturer. PLEASE!
      Print design is secondary to me, happy to go with consensus. For what its worth I like the current black design..

    6. +1 for Santini – This would support Australian Sport supporters (Greenedge as well as the Aust Track Team are supplied by Santini )

  36. Do as you wish with the jersey – but cannot believe that there is a movement for having predominantly white knicks…. A big fat NO! from the cheap seats !!!

  37. I am one who likes the colour scheme of the current kit. I don’t think the dark colours are a factor (thermally) when riding, only when stationary. Sitting in the sun enjoying a coffee can be uncomfortable in summer, so I move into the shade or inside.

    Regarding visibility, I rely on lights. I’ve seen people with them on the back of their bike, their jersey and their helmet. Industry goes with fluoro colours with reflective strips to address visibility. I think there is too much variability in the colours of the world around us for a predominantly white kit to solve the problem. Perhaps we could integrate a reflective strip along the bottom of the jersey pockets to help with visibility at night? Some of the better cycling clothing suppliers offer this sort of feature in some of their products.

    The quality of the kit leaves a bit to be desired. I’d prefer a better quality, better fitting kit but there are considerations such as order quantities that come into play and I don’t know what our quantities will be like compared with the requirements of some of the larger O.S.-based suppliers. There is also the added aggravation of trying to organise an O.S. order in your spare time and of course, supporting Australian business.

    Having a white/green kit and a black/green kit may work against the club in order quantities, as not everyone will want both kits, I think. Having the black/green kit for racing and the white/green kit for other occasions sounds good but do we have the numbers? Economics may rule the option out.

    The white/green jersey looks alright but the knicks worry me. Absolutely no white in the central strip please! Having ridden behind a guy who was wearing what I assume were his long-time favourite white knicks, I would not like to experience that again or inflict it on others for that matter. It does encourage you to move forward in the bunch though… All white may look good on 20-something Pros (debatable) but I’m sure it wouldn’t on me. White side panels on the legs would be OK, I think.

    In closing:

    I like the current colour scheme.
    I would rather have a better quality, better fitting kit than a new coloured kit.
    I am wary of combining the colour white and knicks.
    If current sponsorship agreements run to end 2012, leave the kit as is until current sponsorships end. Discussions with future sponsors may be more fruitful if there are some options on colours that may influence their decision or level of sponsorship.

  38. Just to try to bring things back on track here guys…if you go back and read Peter’s post and his subsequent comments the question is NOT about what you feel looks cool, it’s NOT about how you feel about the quality of the current kit supplier, and it is definitely NOT about white knicks!

    The question was mainly around visibility (although some have mentioned the heat) of our kit. I raised the issue with Peter on the weekend. My feeling is that the only option to us at this point, if we want to proudly wear the club colours, is a very dark kit which to me isn’t very sensible in low light or when you are on your own. As you can see from the posts above many have also expressed that concern.

    I don’t think we should change the current kit for race days, because 1. it does look bad ass and 2. it is the kit registered with CA. I wear mine with pride as I haul my sorry ass around in C-grade races. I just think that if there was a white jersey available as well then many would wear it at various times, and feel safer doing so. It’s about personal choice. I’m not proposing that anyone is forced to wear a white jersey. And I’m certainly not suggesting for a moment that a white jersey is a replacement for good lights. Nothing is going to stop you getting hit by a car, but there are things we can do to reduce the risk, however small they might be.

    Peter’s design above has many of the elements of the current jersey and I believe that wearing it would still communicate the club ‘brand’ effectively. I think having an alternative jersey we’d actually see more people in SPR kit more often (see the posts from Dave, Mark, Stuart, Greg, Ben, Wes, et.al.).

    I know that the kit will be revamped for 2013, but that is still at least 9 months (and thousands of kilometres) away. I guess my simple question is, if a white jersey option like the one above was available on the next kit order would people be interested in buying and wearing it?

  39. I don’t wear my spr kit very often as it isn’t very comfortable. Assos snob:) The design is good but the dark colours could be better. I will wear my kit on short rides and when it isn’t to hot. Current SPR colours are perfect for winter mtb riding. A non dark jersey to me makes a very big difference during the summer. I have over looked the club kit on hot days as it is to dark. Also wearing lighter colours to be seen is better riding alone. I do like Peters light jersey idea but may only buy a new kit if it was a better fit and comfortable to wear. It would be hard to please everyone.

  40. A white kit wont make you more visable on the roads.

    Get reflectors and more lights for early morning rides.

    White kits are also useless in the wet. They go black & brown from all the sh1t off the roads. The only time I would wear a white kit is for the 30+ deg summer rides.

    PS Whoever suggested White bibs needs to know they arent PRO 🙂

  41. Maybe we should look into a more comfortable brand such as…

    Santini
    Sugoi

    A little off the subject I know- but maybe more ppl would wear them as I know alot of ppl dislike the current fit etc…

    – But I suppose I have wasted time again as this will be past up- yet again…

    1. what is that supposed to mean jason???
      there is an open opportunity for any of you that want to do something about this. it goes something like this –
      1. get all new sponsors for the next 2 years.
      2. design a kit that everyone is happy with. (jersey, knicks, vests, jackets, arms, knees, gloves, booties, undergarments)
      3. develop a relationship with a supplier so that they will replace things, accept low order numbers, have a quick turn around, be in australia, etc.
      4. take orders from the club.
      5. process all the orders.
      6. get all the kit delivered to your house.
      7. spend ages sorting out the kit and distributing.
      8. put up with any complaints like it is your own fault.

      there is an agm coming up. nominate yourself and fix the problem. presidents role is always available.

      1. Peter, I don’t think anyone for any minute is saying the problems are your fault. However, if something is wrong, who else are we supposed to go to given that (as you have suggested) it is the presidents role? People are paying a lot of money for kit that doesn’t fit.
        Jason and numerous other people have made a fairly valid comment about the kit supplier. Surely they don’t have to nominate themselves to become president just to get their voice heard?
        Only item 3 above has anything to do with the supplier to be fair. So, in regards to number 3, there are suppliers who will do those things. Champion systems does a low order number of 10, have a quick turn around and they are also in Australia. I’m currently doing a kit for our trip to the Pyrenees, and generally they have been pretty good to work with. I’m sure there are others. Also, I’m sure that people would be more than willing to help with kit orders if you asked – I’d happily put my hand up (and Jorgy did earlier). Maybe you can tell us better yourself but perhaps kit orders these days are a job for more than one person given the (now) large size of the club.

        1. all i am saying is that there is a whole lot more that goes on behind the scenes that a lot of people don’t see. just by saying change the manufacturer doesn’t just solve the problem, it actually brings in a whole lot more work.

      2. my first generation “new” black/green spr jersey & bib knicks are super comfy – they are brilliant, regardless of distance/terrain covered in them. wouldn’t have a problem ordering this make again if the quality for this particular kit was duplicated, particularly since on the last order, the design of the elastic round the legs was changed to make it much more forgiving . just my opinion however.

        1. +1 on that Lennie – they are really good value for money compared to my other Assos snob pants. I’m very impressed with them and actually prefer to ride in them.

  42. Perhaps a survey of what people are looking for in a kit??……comfort, fit, functionality, aesthetics……that’s the only way you are going to attend to a club this size all wanting different things…….

    1. Surveys rarely accomplish anything on such a wide and varied topic as this. There is never going to be anything approaching a consensus, because we all have different aims / desires for the club and our membership.

      We elect a committee (and president), who we trust to make decisions on behalf of the club. In my view, the design of the kit, and all other related decisions are theirs to make. As Pete alludes above, if we don’t like the decisions we can run ourselves.

  43. Settle down guys – this is all getting personal and out of control.
    ‘Thankyou’ to Peter for opening up the door for inclusive discussion and responding to feedback.
    ‘No Thankyou’ to those who want to use the blog for their own personal frustrated venting.
    This is not a discussion on the carbon tax soliciting ill-informed entrenched opinions – its simply about what we want to wear and why, whilst out riding or racing with our mates.
    My understanding is that Peter has shown the ‘white’ version as an example of a proposed option – not the final done deal. Its essentially a discussion abut light vs dark colours and not necessarily a ‘black’ and ‘white’ thing (pun intended).
    There have been some excellent points raised from both sides and these need to be sensibly summarised in an un-biased way so that Club members can consider and if appropriate vote on them in a democratic way. If you don’t like the outcome don’t buy the kit – no-ones going ostracise you on a ride – I mean there’s even one person turns up in fluoro yellow for goodness-sake !

  44. I have alot of expensive kit and i like the fit and durability of my new (2012) SPR kit. The chamois is good quality and my M jersey and L knicks fits perfect. Ive had two stacks in my kit with no scratches, rips or damage at all.

    As for the design of the kit, the club needs sponsors so you cant dictate logos or some colours because of preference. I know people would love a blue, red or whatever versions to match their bikes but its not practical.

    I cant help thinking if ppl find them uncomfortable or a bad fit they got the wrong size or are the wrong shape??? (srsly no offence – just saying…)

  45. Right,
    In summing up.
    1. Pete asked for opinion as to whether there was an issue with perceived heat with the current jersey, and whether there was a safety issue.
    2. Comments represent a good spread of the club and so this forms a sort of survey.
    3. Results for Black too Dark and unsafe – For 9, against (ie get some lights etc) 13
    4. Black too dark and so too hot – For 2, against 8
    5. White looks good – For 13
    6. Don’t like current fit and should move to another supplier – For 9 Against 1
    7. Leave the kit design until the end of the year when we attract new sponsors – for 4
    8. Rant by Pres on how much work a kit order is – for 1…:P (Just taking the piss Pete, we all know how much work you do, and we ALL appreciate it.)

    As a member of the committee, I will discuss these results with Pete (and any other members of the committee that want to get involved), we will look at what is in the best interests of the club, and communicate the result of those discussions. (Happy with that everyone?)

  46. I’m not really too fussed on what colour but too much white will get dirty very quickly as i dribble my Dome latte down the front. Build in some reflective / flouro element so that there is some form of greater visibility.

  47. The current kit has a very nice and tasteful design, but the colours are dangers. The rider has to be visible as much as possible. Bright colours are must. The last thing we want to experience is an accident where the car driver will blame kits camouflage colours for not seeing the rider. Worst yet, in case of fatality the coroner might put some blame on the club for not being responsible about the safety. I do support the club and I’m wearing the kit but only during the club group rides and races. Please treat my comments as constructive criticism. I am very proud to be a member of SPR and Pete does a tremendous job as a president

  49. IMHO if we’re going to change you may as well change NOW. If need be talk to the Sponsors & bring their committment for 2013 forward but who wants to buy a kit that you know is probably going to be superseded in a few months?

Comments are closed.