Great to see so much feedback on the write up for the main group ride last Saturday and the comments on etiquette and roll through.
Although I have ridden with the main group since its inception, I want to make it clear that I have no right or responsibility to dictate to the group the what and how of the ride. But, I have found by experience that it is good to be aligned on what a group or team is trying to do and how they are going to do it. You can support it, oppose it (and seek to change it), just accept it or going and do something else; but at least you know what you are in for if you stick around. And therefore in the spirit of seeking enjoyment on our rides, alignment, enlightenment(?) , and with great trepidation I am going to set down my thoughts on the main group manner of operation. But please provide comment on the post or in person (I’m the tall guy on the blue Baum) as we need to make it what riders want it to be.
So what is the raison d’être of the Intermediate (Main) Group? The Advanced (Fast) group seems clear, smash it, hurt each other, hang on and last one standing wins – no calls of ‘ease up’ allowed as per Ryan’s post a couple of rides ago. Novice and Transition Groups are also clear I think as Pete has set out their goals when he announced the split to 4 groups. But the Main group is everything that is left, old guys who like to keep fit (me), people from the fast group who want an easier ride, some riders who race, some riders who can only get out on the weekend, and some people who may be are not new to the sport but are building their skills, speed or fitness. Generally I think competency and skills of the group are quite high as evidence by the short time it takes to get everybody back together at regroups.
So I casino online believe we want to enjoy the ride, to be safe, polish our skills, to do some hard work, to have a chat with cycling friends and have a sense of accomplishment at the end. Sound reasonable? It must be something like that or we wouldn’t keep turning up every Saturday.
So I would like to suggest for the main group rides on Saturday:
1. Our aim should be to keep the vast majority of the group together until the last couple of km’s where it’s a bit more willing and those who want can challenge (safely) for a breakaway or sprint finish.
2. There will be some faster bits along the way but,
3. We may need to ‘ease up’ or regroup occasionally to allow number 1 to happen.
4. Stronger riders to assist tired or struggling riders to get back on so number 1 can happen.
5. Whenever we can (safely) we will “Roll Through” as per Ride Etiquette on the SPR web
6. Should be closer to 50km rather than 40 km in distance.
A couple of extra thoughts on the ‘Roll Through’ for consideration for the main group. It’s more enjoyable and safer when everybody works together (less speed variation and less braking). So in particular, let’s focus when we move left out of the faster line to the front of the inside line that we ease up a wee bit. Don’t cross over meters in front of the inside rider as that forces the next person in the faster pace line to work harder and harder to catch and get in front of you. If you are meters ahead and going away, the pace line will drop in behind you, this leaves you out front for longer and disrupts the flow for everybody. Similarly in the faster pace line, don’t ease up and sit alongside or behind the front rider in the slower line – it causes everybody behind you to brake, that’s unsafe and it disrupts the smooth flow.
We should all feel comfortable letting the person know if they need to slow down/speed up as it is all to improve the smooth flow for everybody. I have been ‘coached’ by other riders in the group on my speed and have had my shirt tugged a couple of times to reign in my enthusiasm – I work on it every ride. A good roll through is faster, a real buzz and always puts a smile on our faces.
Not everyone has to participate in the roll through every time, just do as much as you can or want. If you are struggling at bit, it’s better to miss a turn than get half way up the pace line and not be able to make it through. Let the rider ahead know and hang on down the back.
So, this is just my thoughts to prompt comment and alignment – what do you think?
Russell
Just a thought – if there are any guys/gals who can’t keep up with a faster groups, why not go with a slower group? The Transitional and Novice Groups would happily have a few more strong, experienced riders amongst their ranks.
Hi Russ. Yep, sounds perfect to me. We could also consider Doug’s idea having someone on the back of the group as head of the “non-rollers”.
Guess also something that can’t be stressed enough is that safety comes first. Dont know if its the side effects of working in the resources sector where there’s safery rules even for going to the toilet (I swear there are) but it only takes a second of distraction to end up skin down. Again this is covered in detail in the excellent “Ride Etiquette” post from Peter : /?page_id=2206
Also, as Ryan “Yoda” Flynn has indicated, there are ways to pull back an over enthusiastic rider when rolling through, so that’s something we can start practicing from next Saturday.
Now…on a lighter note. A video from my fav rider: Jan Ullrich ! training for his comeback on the 2010 season: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwII3BjBZB4
Cheers
Yes Ronny good idea so long as they don’t come along and blitz the field!! 🙂 🙂 Then us poor ones cant keep up at all
Sounds good Russell
I guess my thoughts on the main group are:
The main group should have its go fast sections and then slow/regroup points. The group can only wait for so long for people to catch up before taking off again or the legs will go cold.
The main group is still a strong competant group and as such should not need to slow too much. There are two groups below it now where developing riders (both confidence and speed/fitness) can play.
The group should be allowed to split nearer the end of the ride like it used to, which will allow the stronger riders in the main group to get a good hit out and go for sprint glory.
Just my 2c worth, even though I don’t ride in the main group.
Maybe as with calling ‘last wheel’ at the back, we could also come up with a saying to let the rider rolling onto the front of the resting line that they are ‘clear’ to do so. This may prevent the gap that sometimes forms when rolling on as people don’t want to cut the rider off.
I agree that the group does have a good coherence and looks after everyone well thanks to the guidance of some and the don’t need to destroy everyone attitude.
Good summary Russell,
Although Ryan’s suggestion of allowing the group to split with, say 10 or 5 k’s to go may allow for the Pettachis, the Boonens and the Cavs to move ahead from the less sprint inclined and make that final ‘race to the coffee shop’ much safer (less people, less risk as i see it) for all.
The use of latin though (‘modus operandi’) can be misleading though, particularly for the more experieced riders, i think the usual French (“Code de conduite”) would be more suitable (good stuff with ‘raison d’etre’), else we’ll all get confused with the whole ‘bidon’, ‘echappee’, ‘maillot jaune’ and ‘domestique’ thing. 🙂
That said i don’t really ride with the main group, and so perhaps it may suit to use more Latin phrases…..
Seems about right to me Russell.
Rolling through is good but, is it unreasonable to expect everyone to do it well in such a large group and without a lot of experience? Some days will be better than others and in a group of forty odd riders I think we managed about 2 turns along Burke Drive. We have a lot of people moving in and out of the groups in between weeks so continuity will always be a problem.
The number one and paramount subject is safety! Two weeks ago we had a rider go in between cars during the sprint along Riverside Drive. Dangerous, unnecessary and doesn’t leave a great taste in motorists mouths. I have been guilty of taking on a red light in the past and had the friendly/forceful tap on the shoulder. Don’t be afraid to let these people know.
Communication on the ride is the way foreard. Don’t get offended if someone is trying to help you with a little advice but also don’t over do it when trying to impart your knowledge. Who knows maybe that person knows more than you anyway 😉
Well thats my post for this year, not overly intelligent but it’s all I’ve got. Don’t forget that we go out there to have some fun, a good laugh and a little fitness at the same time.
hi Russell, you have nailed it.
roll over’s are pretty tricky and it’s a bit like switching from just looking out for yourself, to looking out for the guy behind or in front as we try to keep it smooth. a team mind-set.
having been accused of ‘barging’ in to the roll over a few times, i plead guilty. but in defence only do it if i think there is a *big* enough gap that needs ‘filling’…
The gap should not be there in the first place, but the reality is they will always crop up from time to time as we tire. filling a gap can help the guy bridge it easier i think…
anyway, well done on the post (very diplomatic!) 🙂
Yes Kimbo – there are some naughty little sprinters out there!
Some good suggestions, if followed they will make for a better, safter ride. It is important when the group rolls through not to vary speed, surging and sprinting to the front will slow the average speed of the group as the roll through ‘chain’ is broken. Save your surges for times when it is appropriate to attack, like in the last few k’s when you want to establish a breakaway.
Roll throughs don’t always go in the same direction, are most people comfortable following a roll in either direction? It will come in handy with changes in wind direction so that the working line is sheltered.
Another issue, if the group splits and there are strong riders bridging the gap for the people behind them, don’t burn them at the last minute by sprinting out from behind them and not offering your wheel on the front as you whizz past to close the gap they have narrowed for you; saw some guy get badly burned this way on Sat after doing a massive reel in for the chase group.
Thanks to Russell for your write up, I think all the suggestions you’ve made are valid and will help make a good ride even better.
Ah Lynda, I think the ideal pace for the transitional ride is about the same as the tuesday morning ride with a little bit of a pick up at the end. You should be able to finish with the group without any problems as long as you don’t break your chain or get a flat 🙂
Right on Russell. Absolutely right, especially point 4. A couple of strong riders might need to sacrifice their ride a little to work for those struggling during the ride.
The only problem I see with the roll-through is the success (i.e. size) of the group. There aren’t enough long uninterrupted sections for a group of 30 – 40 to roll through on our Saturday rides (which means I agree with Kim – a worry!). Maybe the group needs to be split at a regroup point prior to rolling, or 6 or 8 volunteer to be domestiques and work a roll while others draft behind the ‘last wheel’.
Other comments:
1. Kimbo is also right on his importance of communication idea (always love to see you out riding, Kim). Rather than mucking around with dropping in behind or coming over the top of said rider, just talk to them. Remind them to ease up/light pedal to let the next rider roll over. The next guy/gal is doing the work for the group now, so don’t make it harder for them.
2. Our ethos at SPR is to support each other for the bulk of the ride. Egomaniacs who frequently want to prove how strong they are to the detriment of the group’s progress need to look for another ride.
3. Peter can’t have written the Etiquette page; it has capitals. From memory, Lorraine was responsible for such a fine piece of literature.
4. Having Ryan and Jarrad comment on rolling through nicely and staying together to the end is akin to wolves instructing sheep in the importance of flocking. They are perhaps the worst offenders in smashing up the advanced group by attacking from the inside line, usually up a hill.
5. Nicole’s point is also very valid (about rolling the right way for the prevailing wind conditions in order to keep the fast line moving the fastest). It is more difficult for riders to get used to rolling away from the curb and takes a bit more practice.
as for point 3, i only avoid capitals to annoy you mike.
Hmm, and I thought it was only Mr Gee who scolded me.. It sounds like I will have to make a concerted effort to attack from the outside line from now on.. I usually try to ‘up’ the pace on my roll through, to give others the chance to roll over me if they want (which Mr B did going up a hill). Last week I rolled over the person who was meant to be rolling through but was holding things up as they were struggling to roll through. I thought this was an opportune time to ‘up’ the pace of the fast group and see who had the legs (whilst trying to keep my hr below 140bpm as I was racing in the afternoon.. Although I am not sure I kept the hr below 140bpm as my ave hr was 140 for the ride))…
I think I do what is right for the group when we are going slower, although prior advice of hanging an offender out to dry was probably not the best advice for the intermediate group. I am just not a big talker in a pack, prefer to let the legs to the talking. Something I need to work on. I remember when I first started riding in the pack with Riders Choice, I used to get my shirt tugged on if I rolled through too exuberantly.. Then the next person to roll through on me used to come really close to me, almost cutting me off, this slowed me down as the person was 6ft 3″ with Tatts… I learnt quickly that you do not roll to the front and flex your guns, the roll through is about increasing the speed of the pack as a whole and needs to be smooth, and not placing undue stress on any riders keeps the average up…
Hey Ronny I thought the Tuesdays pace was so good and so fast we nearly caught up the main ?? – is that transitional pace? ah love it :)- well my lungs do!
all positives re this discussion,
1. at least SPR has the means and structure to allow riders to improve and graduate levels, (without the old school hook or jersey yank)
2. relax and dont expect miracles when rolling 40 people in a bunch, many of whom are learning.
3. dont forget you build a reputation for being a “good wheel”…or someone to avoid, this happens over time and it doesn’t hurt to do the right thing by your club mates….build up credit points and be aware of the movement of your back wheel